00:00:00:00 - 00:00:08:04
Chris
If you've ever wondered how people turn points and miles into business class flights or luxury hotels, this episode could be the missing piece.
00:00:08:06 - 00:00:15:03
Katie
We're breaking down a transfer, partners of what they are and why they're the secret sauce to getting real value from your points.
00:00:15:05 - 00:00:19:09
Chris
Once this clicks, points stop being confusing and start being powerful.
00:00:19:11 - 00:00:28:13
Katie
And you'll never look at your rewards the same way again.
00:00:28:15 - 00:00:31:23
Chris
Hey I'm Chris. Welcome to the Upgraded Points podcast.
00:00:32:01 - 00:00:53:07
Katie
And I'm Katie and today we are talking all about transfer partners. What they are, how to use them and why they are the secret sauce to the points and miles game. Before we get to that, don't forget to like and subscribe on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And if you have questions or comments for us, you can reach us at podcast at Upgraded points.com.
00:00:53:09 - 00:01:02:18
Katie
So Chris, let's dive right into this conversation because it's an important one that you really can't gloss over when you're getting into the points of Miles game.
00:01:02:20 - 00:01:26:16
Chris
Yeah. It's true. I think there's this, thought process that many people have when they get into this, you know, points and mile game that points are worth, you know, one point each, $0.01 each. So 50,000 points may equals only $500. But that is not the case at all. In some situations it could be worth two, five or even ten times that value.
00:01:26:18 - 00:01:38:22
Katie
Absolutely. And transfer partners completely change that math and they change the game and they make even beginner redemptions feel like you're an expert.
00:01:39:00 - 00:01:39:19
Chris
00:01:39:21 - 00:01:51:09
Katie
Okay. So let's dive in to talk about what transfer partners actually are in plain English. No fancy jargon here. So let's just bring it back to the basics.
00:01:51:13 - 00:01:51:21
Chris
All right.
00:01:51:21 - 00:02:17:06
Katie
So in the points of Miles game you have airline miles. Sometimes airline points you have hotel points. And those are points that live within each of those programs. So your Hyatt points your American Airlines miles. Very simple to understand. Then you also have bank points. And these are what we often refer to as transferable currencies. And these are those like Chase and Amex and Citi and Capital One.
00:02:17:08 - 00:02:42:05
Katie
And these points you earn and they live in the bucket of that that the banks program. And the cool thing about these is you earned the bank points. And then at any time you can utilize one of those banks transfer partners. And these are airlines and hotels and turn your bank points into airline miles or hotel points at the drop of a hat.
00:02:42:07 - 00:03:09:02
Katie
So it's it is like magic once you just it's a simple concept, but it is one that you just need to take, you know, a second to think about. And so, for example, you earn points within American Express Membership Rewards. You don't have to book through Amex to use those points. The real magic is when you transfer them to partners like Air Canada, Air France, KLM, JetBlue, Delta, Hilton.
00:03:09:02 - 00:03:31:04
Katie
There's a huge list of partners and each bank has different partners. Some of them overlap. Some of them do not. And we'll talk about those a little bit more later in the show. So when we're talking about transferring points, it's simply just moving the points from the bank's program to your specific airline that you're looking for or your specific hotel program.
00:03:31:06 - 00:03:55:21
Katie
And that's different than booking through a travel portal. So going back to American Express, in our example, you have Amex Membership Rewards points. You can take those points and you can book travel through Amex travel.com. You are booking and using Amex as sort of an online travel agency. The same concept is booking through Expedia or Orbitz. You're just using American Express and paying with your points.
00:03:55:23 - 00:04:16:11
Katie
That's not always the best way to use your points, and so the better way generally to use those points instead of transfer, instead of booking through that travel portal, is transferring them out to these airline and hotel partners. And I wanted to give you a really simple example to show the difference in the the different values you can get.
00:04:16:11 - 00:04:42:06
Katie
And so I actually went back and looked at my, my travel list from this year. And this summer I stayed at the Hyatt Regency London Blackfriars. So this is a Hyatt property. Chase points transferred directly to Hyatt. So there is a world in which you could earn Chase points. You can either choose to book through Chase or transfer them to Hyatt utilizing that transfer partner.
00:04:42:08 - 00:05:08:01
Katie
Let me show you the difference. Booking through Chase. One room at the Hyatt Regency London Blackfriars in summer would cost 67,000 chase points. Oh, that's a lot. Yeah, you could also take those exact same Chase points, transfer them at a 1 to 1 ratio to Hyatt, booked the exact same room the exact same night for 29,000 Hyatt points.
00:05:08:03 - 00:05:14:03
Chris
So good. And this is a nice hotel, right? This is these are kind of more on the higher end of redemptions, right?
00:05:14:05 - 00:05:36:18
Katie
Yeah. At 29,000 points for Hyatt. Yeah. Is, is is on the high end. But and it was actually a great hotel. So if you're going to London really nice. Good hotel, good location, decent breakfast. Getting back to the chase points, I thought that example really illustrated pretty well the difference between booking through the bank portal and transferring out.
00:05:37:00 - 00:06:02:04
Katie
And I think a lot of people, when they get into the game, I've had conversations with people who just assume you use your points to book through the bank's portal and get a little intimidated by the transfer partners, because it sounds like a big, complicated process and it really isn't. So we want to kind of demystify that today and show you how easy it is to make some of these redemptions through transfer partners.
00:06:02:06 - 00:06:26:14
Chris
Yeah. And that was a great example because you were literally saving half you spending half of what you would, if you were to book through the Chase portal. And that's why these transfer partners, you know, they feel like an X factor. And so, yeah, maybe there's an extra step involved there. But if you're getting twice as many hotel nights or double the flights for your family, I think it's worth the, you know, the extra step.
00:06:26:16 - 00:06:56:07
Chris
So moving on. We understand that it can be a little intimidating these transfer partners. So let's say you have 50,000 points in your Chase account or Amex account. A lot of people just say, okay, well I'm going to cash that out for a $500 gift card because it's easy and I understand how to use that. But if you take that same 50,000 points and transfer it to an airline and book a business class flight, that business class flight usually costs one, two, three, $4,000.
00:06:56:11 - 00:07:20:16
Chris
Now you're getting four times as much for those same amount of points. So that's what this these points can really be. The X factor. And another benefit is that these points that live in the banks give you a lot more flexibility, instead of locking into just one brand. So Katie mentioned earlier, leaving your point with American Airlines or directly with a hotel that can be great in many circumstances.
00:07:20:21 - 00:07:32:04
Chris
But by keeping your points in the bank, it's giving you the flexibility to move them to where the deal is instead of waiting for the deal to pop up with the points you already have.
00:07:32:06 - 00:07:50:19
Katie
Yeah, not that flexibility is so key in this game, and that's where transfer partners just make all the difference. So just so everyone is on the same page, I wanted to just mention the big transferable programs real quick and give you a couple examples of some of the transfer partners that they have. This is not an exhaustive list.
00:07:50:19 - 00:08:09:13
Katie
That would take quite a while, and it would probably bore you to tears. So you can go look this up and we'll drop links to in the show notes. We have articles on all of these programs. So Chase is when we talk about all the time, you can transfer to Hyatt United, southwest, JetBlue, Virgin Atlantic, Marriott.
00:08:09:15 - 00:08:35:19
Katie
Amex is another one we talk about all the time. Amex Membership Rewards points are some of our favorite transfers to Air Canada, Air France, KLM, JetBlue, Delta, and Hilton. Citi thank you. Points transfer to American. They're the only ones that transfer to American. A core choice preferred hotels Turkish Airlines. You've got capital one miles transfer to Air Canada, British Airways, Turkish and Virgin Red.
00:08:35:21 - 00:08:53:13
Katie
And those are sort of the big four that we always talk about. There are a few smaller programs, and one of them that's been making a lot of splashes, especially this past year, is built Rewards. So I think it deserves a mention. And with built you can transfer to Hyatt to Alaska. It's the only one that transfers to Alaska.
00:08:53:13 - 00:09:18:06
Katie
So that's a really big one. Spirit, which was just added in December. Japan Airlines and United a couple other small programs that we're not going to get into. Those are sort of the big ones that are really important to know about. So as you can see, you can access pretty much any hotel or airline you can think of through those 4 or 5 major programs.
00:09:18:08 - 00:09:40:19
Chris
Yeah. And if you see an airline there or you're there's an airline there that you don't see. Don't forget that all of these transfer partners are usually part of some sort of an alliance. So for example, if you have points that, earn you a char, Air Canada Aeroplan miles, and you want to fly United their partners, you can book many United flights directly to Air Canada often.
00:09:40:21 - 00:09:57:10
Chris
And a really good price. So that's another level of these transfer partners that we can get into. But I just wanted to give you a couple real world examples that you can, you know, put in the back of your mind when you're thinking, okay, maybe I have these points, how I can use them where maybe an economy flight.
00:09:57:10 - 00:10:19:21
Chris
We don't talk a lot about economy flights, but I know Katie and I use our points for economy flights a lot because they make a lot of sense. Domestic flights in the US are really expensive, and they can get up to 3 or $400 one way. And if you're trying to get somewhere, reposition for a bigger flight, that $400 can really, you know, ruin the, you know, the redemption value you're trying to get for that other flight.
00:10:19:23 - 00:10:41:12
Chris
But you could book a domestic flight for 5 or 10,000 points or miles if you're a little bit flexible. So hop into a program like Season Arrow, check out availability. Maybe you find that United flight booked through Air Canada Aeroplan for 10,000 points instead of $300. So that's a less glamorous example, but that is something that we use all the time.
00:10:41:13 - 00:11:13:05
Chris
On the other end of the spectrum is, you know, maybe an aspirational trip. So that big international flight, you want to go to Japan in business class, one of the most popular options is transferring American Express points over to Virgin Atlantic. And these are we often see with bonuses as well 20, 30 or 40% bonus. And you can take those Amex points, transfer them to Virgin, and then book A and a business class or first class, which is one of the best business class seats in the world.
00:11:13:07 - 00:11:35:12
Chris
And, going to mess it up off the top of my head, but we're talking around 50 or 60,000 miles each way. And if you stack that with a transfer bonus, you can really bring that cost down. And these flights cost 4 or $5000. So all of a sudden you're spending 40,000 miles points for $4,000 seat. Maybe that $400 gift card doesn't look as good anymore.
00:11:35:14 - 00:11:39:15
Katie
Exactly. Is that why you booked for Japan, or did you? You know, I booked.
00:11:39:15 - 00:11:42:12
Chris
Through Japan Airlines with American. So again.
00:11:42:18 - 00:11:44:19
Katie
Another another good. Yeah.
00:11:44:21 - 00:12:11:22
Chris
So I transferred from City to American Airlines and then booked Japan Airlines business class for 60,000 miles each way. Now I talked about the A and A1 because that is my goal, my dream. But the availability has been very difficult. So I like to set my alerts on C0, or one of the many other services that are out there and just hope that my dates pop up, but it's not looking good.
00:12:12:00 - 00:12:25:04
Chris
I actually had that flight booked. I booked it during the pandemic or January 2020 for 2021, and that trip obviously got canceled. Yeah. And I've been waiting for like five years to try and rebook. It just hasn't happened.
00:12:25:06 - 00:12:26:01
Katie
Someday.
00:12:26:03 - 00:12:50:06
Chris
Someday. Well, while we're talking about Tokyo, well, I'll give you a sweet spot. Example, for hotels, Katie mentioned Chase, the Hyatt. That is one of the most famous, one of the most popular transfer, partners out there, especially with Chase and the one of the points of Miles game. We'll we'll usually mention that the Park Hyatt in Tokyo just opened, and they have nights starting at 35,000 points a night.
00:12:50:08 - 00:12:52:09
Chris
This hotel costs $1,000 a night.
00:12:52:09 - 00:12:53:12
Katie
It's fantastic.
00:12:53:12 - 00:13:19:00
Chris
So you can transfer 35,000 chase points over to Hyatt, takes two clicks and then book one of the for it's just finished renovation. Most one of the brand new, freshly renovated hotels in the world that was already one of the best hotels in the world. So there's just so many ways to to stretch your points further, you know, versus, you know, just cashing out for a gift card or booking through the portal.
00:13:19:01 - 00:13:25:17
Katie
Yeah. And that's, that's well, that's a great it's a great redemption. Are you are you staying there or are you going to be in Tokyo?
00:13:25:19 - 00:13:38:23
Chris
I'm trying. Okay. You trying? It's available for like, two of the three nights I want. And the one in the middle is not available, and, we don't feel like hotel hopping with four people, so it's. My alerts are set. I'll see.
00:13:39:04 - 00:13:52:07
Katie
Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Okay, let's take a quick break. And then we want to talk about some common mistakes to avoid when it comes to transfer partners.
00:13:52:09 - 00:14:06:18
Katie
Yeah. Welcome back. Let's continue our conversation about transfer partners. Chris, what are some of the common mistakes that people should look out for when they're getting into transfer partners for the first time?
00:14:06:20 - 00:14:41:22
Chris
Yeah, this is something I see a lot, especially in our Facebook group. We talk about, you know, we share a transfer bonus from a bank to a program, and everyone gets excited and asks, should I transfer my points now? And generally we say, no, not without a redemption in mind. After you've checked for award availability. Now, I feel like I'm pretty advanced when I'm with my searching and booking, capabilities, and I've already mentioned twice in the show that I haven't been able to book some of these things that I want flights and hotels, because word availability can be very tough sometimes.
00:14:42:00 - 00:15:05:21
Chris
Especially if you're, you know, limited to, you know, school vacations or just high travel periods like I am right now, that availability can be really hard to come by. So generally the mistakes we see are people transferring points without checking for availability, availability first, then their points are going to be stuck wherever they transfer them in that that flight or hotel is in the red isn't available for them yet.
00:15:05:23 - 00:15:29:06
Chris
This is related. Is transferring speculative speculatively just because there's a 40% bonus doesn't mean that you should definitely transfer. Now. There's exceptions to every rule. If you are very familiar with the program, and you know that eventually you will use those points or miles. Okay, it may make sense, but you need to be aware that these programs devalue their points all the time.
00:15:29:08 - 00:15:50:20
Chris
These if you transfer 100,000, points and they turn into a hundred thousand miles, those 100,000 miles the next day could be devalued and they could take you less further or less far than they used to. So that's just something to be aware of. Another thing you need to be aware of is transfer ratios. Not all banks are going to be transferring to hotels and airlines at the same ratio.
00:15:50:22 - 00:16:06:18
Chris
So for example, if you want to book a hotel, preferred hotels and resorts, and you have some capital one miles and you also have some city thank you rewards that you want to combine and book for a hotel. You need to be aware that these are very different transfer ratios. For example, Capital One transfers that a 1 to 2 ratio.
00:16:06:18 - 00:16:29:02
Chris
That means if for every mile that you transfer, you'll get to preferred hotels and resorts. Points. That sounds great, right? Then you look at it sounds awesome until you see city. It's a 1 to 4 ratio. So you transfer one point and you get four over at Preferred Hotels and Resorts. So you just need to keep an eye on, you know, what your points are worth.
00:16:29:06 - 00:16:43:19
Chris
And what they will be worth after the transfer. And we have a great tool, an upgrade upgraded point to will link in the in the show notes here that you can just select the program you have and I'll show you a list of everything and all the transfer ratios and how long it takes for for each transfer.
00:16:43:21 - 00:17:08:07
Chris
And one final note on this is that these transfers are almost always irreversible. So you're thinking, oh, I'm going to go and book this flight. And the flight's not available anymore. Those points are stuck there. There's very rare circumstances I'd be able to get those points back. So be very careful when you're transferring. Don't transfer. Speculative speculatively. I was hoping I wouldn't have to say that again.
00:17:08:09 - 00:17:11:04
Katie
It's a hard word. Just. Yeah.
00:17:11:06 - 00:17:16:20
Chris
And I said it twice for no reason. Because yeah, those points are going to be stuck wherever they're.
00:17:16:22 - 00:17:35:05
Katie
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, and also, you know, we're talking about how great transfer partners are right now. I think we need to also mention sometimes it's best to not transfer. And when you're just getting into this, you know, you might be confused. It's like, well, is this a good situation for me to transfer my points?
00:17:35:07 - 00:18:02:06
Katie
So a couple times that I don't transfer my points is when there's just cheap cash fares. And like Chris said, we do use points sometimes for basic boring domestic economy flights when they're expensive, but sometimes they're just really cheap. And in those instances, I would much prefer just to spend my money, book those in cash, and save my points for something else.
00:18:02:08 - 00:18:23:12
Katie
This is a situation I'm in right now. When you are chasing status and you are short on qualifying spend, or in my case, I'm short on loyalty points and I have a, I'm an American Airlines award flight booked for next month, and I'm debating whether I should cancel it and booking cash because I need loyalty points, so sometimes that can make sense.
00:18:23:12 - 00:18:49:06
Katie
You really have to kind of way. Like how important is that status. But that is an instance when, you know, maybe it does make sense to book in cash and save your points for something else. For like last minute trip bookings and also when it's your first time using a program, the transfers might not be instant. Most of these transfers are talking about generally are instant, a handful of them or not.
00:18:49:08 - 00:19:08:21
Katie
But let's say you're you're booking a flight for, I don't know, next week. You don't want to get yourself in one of those situations where the transfer doesn't go through instantly, because then that award availability can vanish. And if you're this happened to me on that Christmas markets trip, my friend, did not have an Air Canada account.
00:19:08:23 - 00:19:25:01
Katie
And so she made the account. And then we did the transfer. And I kind of knew this was going to happen, but I tested and anyways, it waited a week for the transfer to go through. And I think, is it what Japan Airlines definitely is, one that I think you have to have your account open for at least a week.
00:19:25:07 - 00:19:26:16
Chris
I think it's a longer thing.
00:19:26:16 - 00:19:27:17
Katie
Is it longer days?
00:19:27:18 - 00:19:28:07
Chris
Oh.
00:19:28:09 - 00:19:31:00
Katie
Okay. Well open your accounts now. Yeah.
00:19:31:02 - 00:19:34:22
Chris
Definitely. Oh, as long as you can. I think they opened an exception. When is it a good one and.
00:19:34:22 - 00:19:36:02
Katie
Yeah. Oh right. Right, right, right.
00:19:36:02 - 00:19:39:03
Chris
Yeah. But I think before that it was like a month 30.
00:19:39:04 - 00:20:04:16
Katie
Yeah. But a lot of programs, even if they don't mention it in their terms, will not let you open an account in immediately transfer points. So that might be something where it's not a good time to transfer points. Or better yet, just go and open all your accounts now so they're open and ready to go. So that's definitely, a couple times when it just it might make sense to not transfer, save those points for a different opportunity.
00:20:04:18 - 00:20:28:00
Chris
Well said. I think just a couple takeaways here is that we can all agree that, transfer partners are not just for the advanced traveler. They're just misunderstood. And we understand that, it can be intimidating at first, but we have step by step guides on upgraded points.com that will walk you through how to make all of these transfers a calculator that will help you decide if it's a good deal or not.
00:20:28:01 - 00:20:46:17
Chris
And as always, just send us a message, send us an email, drop a comment in the in the questions or join our Level Up Travel Facebook group, and we can answer any question you may have. Okay. And speaking about questions, we received a couple questions on YouTube in response to, episode 36. We talked a lot about airport lounges and card.
00:20:46:17 - 00:20:55:10
Chris
I'm going to read this one to you and it asks if you have Priority Pass. Can you bring a guest with you to the Chase Sapphire Lounge?
00:20:55:12 - 00:21:19:20
Katie
So, I was really happy to see this question because I was getting ready to respond to this person on YouTube. And I went and double checked and I was wrong. So I'm really glad I double checked. So yeah, you can bring in a guest when you are accessing a Chase Sapphire Lounge with Priority Pass, but it's going to cost you around $75.
00:21:19:22 - 00:21:44:17
Katie
When you have that priority pass that's not associated with a Chase, credit card. And that's different than the regular priority pass. Guest access. Most of the time you can bring in, I think 1 or 2 guests, depending on the lounge with your Priority Pass membership. But the Chase Sapphire lounges are different. So, yeah, $75 is not as nice as those lounges are.
00:21:44:18 - 00:21:49:05
Katie
You would have to eat or drink a lot to make that worth while.
00:21:49:06 - 00:21:50:15
Chris
The burgers are good.
00:21:50:17 - 00:21:51:19
Katie
I mean, yeah.
00:21:51:21 - 00:21:52:12
Chris
Maybe.
00:21:52:14 - 00:22:01:04
Katie
You know, maybe if you have a really long layover hour, they won't let you in. If you have a really long layover, at least I want to JFK with the snarky, snarky, the front desk.
00:22:01:06 - 00:22:02:18
Chris
Have to get in before the delays start.
00:22:03:00 - 00:22:21:09
Katie
Exactly, exactly. Another question, kind of, revolving around the same topic. This one was also from YouTube. In response to that episode, this question is what if you have multiple priority pass cards? Can you get into the Chase Sapphire Lounge once per card?
00:22:21:11 - 00:22:41:13
Chris
I love this question and the answer is yes. If you have multiple priority passes, you can access multiple times. So many of us have more than one priority pass because some of our favorite cards come with them. And generally, I know a lot of us don't activate them all because we have one. And yeah, it's just easier to keep one.
00:22:41:15 - 00:23:05:19
Chris
But if you're interested in these, Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club, I highly recommend you get a list of all your priority passes. Go and create an account on priority pass.com, get a unique login, save that log in in your notes or whatever, and then when you're using the Party Pass app, you can just log into each one, use your one annual pass at one lounge, and then log out.
00:23:05:21 - 00:23:14:06
Chris
Bring up the other QR code scan to get into another one, and you can use. So if you have three priority passes for example, you can get in three times a year. So yeah great question.
00:23:14:08 - 00:23:31:13
Katie
Yeah. Make sure if you're traveling with a friend they have a priority pass to or they want to call for $25. But no, that's actually a really great tip that I think a lot of people probably don't even think about because like you said, most of us just have our one priority pass and don't even bother with all the others.
00:23:31:13 - 00:23:51:23
Katie
But if you don't have access to the Chase Sapphire lounges, otherwise, this is a fantastic way to get more than one entry into those lounges. So great questions if you have questions for us on any topics, points and miles travel related, you can email us at podcast at Upgraded points.com. We would love to hear from you. And if you are enjoying the show, we would love it.
00:23:51:23 - 00:24:05:18
Katie
If you liked and subscribe on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and share it with a travel loving friend that really helps. More people discover the show, and we'd really appreciate that. And otherwise, I think it'll do it for us this week, and we will see you next week.